Gemming Up ICC Style

[Kelmia]

So I've noticed that Invis has stam gems like crazy cause of ICC. So I need advice on things if I should tweak some gems in my T9 or just wait till I get better gear out of ICC-10.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &cn=Jyotia

There's my armory and I hope you enjoy the pose. >->;

Also I have 37.3k hp unbuffed but 40.4k buffed with sanct. Fully raid buffed, flask and if the imps near..I am at 49k. Without imp 46k-47k I believe. Thanks!

[shaak]

Also I have 37.3k hp unbuffed but 40.4k buffed with sanct. Fully raid buffed, flask and if the imps near..I am at 49k. Without imp 46k-47k I believe. Thanks!

first of all, commanding shout gives about another 1k hp

secondly, generally people stack stam gems for higher effective health during serious raid progression (until healers get used to the fights, and are prepared for the spike damage you could take it's generally better to just soak the damage)

with 10 man progression you could get away with the gems you use now, but 25 man it would help alot

[Kelmia]

Yea. I am looking at the other pally tank in my new guild on Wyrmrest Accord and he's stacked up parry gems like everywhere. Like two stam gems and one hit gem. I'd rather go with straight up stam and a agi/stam gem for my meta.

[Aurelie]

Yea. I am looking at the other pally tank in my new guild on Wyrmrest Accord and he's stacked up parry gems like everywhere. Like two stam gems and one hit gem. I'd rather go with straight up stam and a agi/stam gem for my meta.

He's foolish. Gemming for parry is something that is almost never justifiable, similar to hit... Gmming for threat stats in a set other than your trash/threat gear is just not smart. At this point, as long as you're in ICC gear, you should really be stacking straight stam with an agi/stam gem to fulfill the meta requirement.

[Mathirin]

Yea. I am looking at the other pally tank in my new guild on Wyrmrest Accord and he's stacked up parry gems like everywhere. Like two stam gems and one hit gem. I'd rather go with straight up stam and a agi/stam gem for my meta.

He's foolish. Gemming for parry is something that is almost never justifiable, similar to hit... Gmming for threat stats in a set other than your trash/threat gear is just not smart. At this point, as long as you're in ICC gear, you should really be stacking straight stam with an agi/stam gem to fulfill the meta requirement.

I personally prefer avoidance tanking. My healers prefer it - and I've noticed that it does make a very large difference in survivability in ICC (10 and 25). I rarely die before a wipe is called

Before you ask - yes I am using a couple of defense gems. DR's right now are high enough that it's pretty effective And these days, if you're not producing enough threat in your main set of tank gear, you might have a problem, as there really isn't a big difference between main tanking and offtanking.

So yes, you can call me foolish all you like, whether or not the previous poster was referring to me (The name doesn't seem familiar <.< ) But it boils down to the facts:
I have enough health to take a few hits.
I have enough avoidance to negate half the potential damage a boss does.
And I produce more threat than anyone else I know, despite the lack of threat gemming. (mostly because I get ridiculous amounts of hit from my gear, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.)

There's another paladin tank in my guild who stacks straight stam (with a meta activator) who's squishy as hell and dies when a boss looks at him funny. I have ~10% more avoidance than him, despite having a bit less health. *shrug* You tell me what's more effective - a tank who dies or a tank who doesn't.

[Aurelie]

We're similarly geared I believe, so I will use myself as an example in this rebuttal. Breaking it down, I have 0.5% less Dodge, 1.59% less parry and %0.84 less character sheet miss less than you do to make a grand total of 2.93% less avoidance than you're currently running on armoury. My tradeoff for this minimal avoidance loss? 8910 HP (unbuffed, don't forget that agi is the only avoidance stat affected by buffs) and 470 more armour unbuffed (again, agi is the only armour stat affected by buffs). I hardly think close to 9k unbuffed HP and 470 armour is worth less than 3% character sheet avoidance.

Gemming for parry is straight up foolish unless you know what you're doing. Digren in his 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide explains why.

Parry Rating

Don't be fooled by the buff to parry in 3.2; it still isn't as good as dodge. But the changes made it acceptable to intelligently gem for parry. Theck generated a rule of thumb that maximizes avoidance:

Stack up to 689 defense rating (for defense minimum a.k.a. uncrittable)
At low gear levels (defense rating + dodge rating + parry rating < 1150 or so), just ignore additional defense and stack dodge and parry rating in a 1.88:1 ratio. (Agility can be substituted for dodge rating by multiplying the agility by 0.83.)
At higher gear levels (defense + dodge + parry ratings > 1150), gear so that the post-diminishing returns dodge and parry percentages (the ones from the character sheet) come out as close to a 1.88:1 ratio as possible, using the formula:

Be sure to perform this check while raid buffed, including nearly-always-up buffs like the dodge rating from Libram of Defiance.


Most tankadins acquire more than enough parry rating from gear, and thus few ever exceed the 1.88:1 ratio. If in doubt, or if you just don't want to bother with the formula, stack agility.

Basically, if you're going to gem for avoidance at ALL you should be gemming agi. Here's the TLDR from this post which explains why.

TLDR Summary
In Icecrown Citadel:

* Each point of Agility is 83% as effective as a point of dodge rating for avoidance. (i.e. 10 AGI ~ 8.31 Dodge rating)
* Each point of Agility is around 4% more effective at reducing average incoming damage as a point of dodge rating
* Each point of Agility also gives you almost 1 pont of critical strike rating.
* In general, if you're going to match a red socket for Icecrown progression, use an Agility/Stam gem rather than a Dodge/Stam.
* If you're at or above the armorcap, agility drops back down to 83% the damage reduction of an avoidance gem, with no added survivability benefit.

Outside of Icecrown:

* Each point of Agi is still 83% as effective for avoidance, but is now only 98% as effective as dodge rating for reducing incoming damage. Still a worthwhile trade though, since it gives you some of that reduction in the form of EH, and gives you threat as well.

So if you're going to argue avoidance tanking, know the facts and don't compare yourself with someone who's likely way under geared for whatever encounters you're facing at the time. And while I'm at it... You should probably be running a 0/53/18 spec. All hail the mighty Theck.